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remember Malema ??

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richardw
Super Contributor
I could easily imagine kgalema motlanthe becoming prez and 'pardoning' malema with support from various ANC members. Say he took 5 years off, or went to jail for a couple years. So what - mandela was out of action for 27. The grassroots would be chanting his name stukkend and he'd be the hero that came back to save the poor from the horrible businesspeople.

Besides, you tell me what the next few ANCYL leaders are going to be like. Golden choirboys who want peace and love for all? Or "copy malema, but be smarter than him"?
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THRESHOLD
Super Contributor
The ANC elite and emerging black middle/upper class have more in common with the largely white existing middle and upper segments than they do with the masses. This will lead to a class clash more than a racial one. That said, however, I fear that whichever way this plays out - the need will arise to through whitey to the hoards at some point - if for no other purpose than just to buy time.
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
an that is the point of the ANCYL .. it was formed by Tambo, Sisulu and Mandela as they considered the elders too quiet and the ANCYL started the protests and ultimately MK .. The history of the ANCYL is largly rabble rousing and pushing the senior NEC members .. in short there has always been tension between the ANC as a body and the ANCYL, and tension within an org is good, that's how they move forward and resolve issues ..

the mandela 27 anaology misses many points so as to be useless ..
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THRESHOLD
Super Contributor
Sure - but the pint is that they no longer share the same goals to varying degrees. I think they have diverged completely. It is not about age or "severity" of thinking, dielectical differences within a given school. It is about class ie. the country is maturing.
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
yip, albeit they have always diverged to fair degree .. whem MK was started it almost split the ANC .. spose a big part of the issue is how the leaders (top6) deal with it ..
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richardw
Super Contributor
It's not an analogy, Simon, it's a reminder that putting someone away for a period of time doesn't make them irrelevant. Missing the point is also useless.
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richardw
Super Contributor
Agreed, I don't think I mentioned anything about race there. Definitely a class issue.
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
ok not an analogy .. but so wildly different as to be that wooshng sound ..
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richardw
Super Contributor
So un-flush your head long enough to realise that we don't need to "remember Malema" because he's not necessarily gone yet.
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richardw
Super Contributor
And "gone" meaning "will not affect SA or the ANC again" before you come up with other irrelevant semantic reasons why it doesn't describe exactly what you're thinking.
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surfer
Regular Contributor
Look,sa is not perfect but what country in the world is doing well other than maybe some eastern countries and arguablly aus/ nz.Europe is stale ,Us in decline,we no different to Brazil or any developing with all our corruption.Does not justify it but maybe Sa aint such a bad place after all and if we survived before who says we wont survive now.Sure we got issues but is it really worth getting your knickers in a knot about malema and co when you live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.I fully understand you could argue against what I am saying, my point is more of a generic one.
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CHATTYCHAT
Super Contributor
Maybe we should blame the communist/socialist thinkers of yesteryear. Carl Marx was before all else a revolutionist. His real mission in life was to contribute, in one way or another, to the overthrow of capitalist society and of the state institutions which it had brought into being, to contribute to the liberation of the modern proletariat, which he was the first to make conscious of its own position and its needs, conscious of the conditions of its emancipation. Fighting was his element. And he fought with a passion, a tenacity and a success such as few could rival. His work (books) ... and ... a host of militant pamphlets, ... and finally ... the formation of the great International Working Men's Association -- this was indeed an achievement of which its founder might well have been proud even if he had done nothing else. And, consequently, Marx was the best hated and most calumniated man of his time. Governments, both absolutist and republican, deported him from their territories. Bourgeois, whether conservative or ultra-democratic, vied with one another in heaping slanders upon him. All this he brushed aside as though it were a cobweb, ignoring it, answering only when extreme necessity compelled him. And he died beloved, revered and mourned by millions of revolutionary fellow workers ...
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THRESHOLD
Super Contributor
You have reproduced an extensive piece from: Der Sozialdemokrat, March 22, 1883. To lend crediblty to your quote (and in the interest of fair and honest disclosure) - you must quote your source.
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THRESHOLD
Super Contributor
Anyway - why the speeches from alongside Marx's grave. He came from a a monarchy, which casts doubt on his theories re capitalism. He once stayed in Holland with his uncle, a certain Mnr. Philips, the founder of Philips Electrical. He felt that his uncle's aspirations were quintessentially Jewish. They were diametrically opposed to his own. Perhaps he felt some misplaced need to prove himself different from a false stereotype that has lingered till today. I mean, honestly, - his uncle did more for the world than he ever did. Anyway Marxism is not communism per se. (Not my field - so I'll leave it at that.) The South African mob subscribes to whatever ideology offers more fat on the day.
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CHATTYCHAT
Super Contributor
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CHATTYCHAT
Super Contributor
The relevance is that Malema has been taught and caught up in whichever way he wants to, with the doctrine of Marx and the like. And though (seemingly) he is not a communist, he is well groomed to use (any) source of wisdom to his benefit. Marx was poor and faught with and on behalf of the poor, but he was a revolutionist - as Malema is, though the latter is (on the face of it) rather wealthy. What we see in all countries is that the poor is in rebellion against the rich. Our country's rebels are stupid enough to follow certain rich "leaders" in their war against so-called oppression/capitalism, vaguely aware of the political motives which is predominantly sought by such clan.
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CHATTYCHAT
Super Contributor
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THRESHOLD
Super Contributor
I take issue with the use of the terms "taught" and "wisdom" and "malema" on the same page.
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topgun
Super Contributor
...while the myopic masses indulge in trivial politics led astray by the ANCÂ’s red herrings, corruption and graft remain endemic and incompetence the order of the day...infrastructure doesnÂ’t get maintained, roads become ever more potholed to the degree where in many places they will simply revert back to gravel, the majority of the countryÂ’s sewerage works donÂ’t function properly, the Vaal River feeding the countryÂ’s economic hub faces an ecological disaster exacerbated by mine acid water drainage, countless municipalities and state departments have become dysfunctional (Public Works being the latest to concede that its systems have collapsed), and all the while taxes and administered prices are skyrocketing to fund a bloated and overpaid civil service (the so-called new middle-class) and layers of deployed cadres in the transformed SOEÂ’s. Fortunately that august organisation is apparently moving forward(!), guided by its collective wisdom and brilliance...and mercifully resource nationalisation is no longer considered a threat? The foundation for sustainable progress has been laid...let the looting continue.
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striker
Super Contributor
- It appears topgun ,that some of us see the bigger picture. The banning of Malema does not fix anything really - it merely paves the way for the next politically popular protagonist to emerge. For as long as a tax paying base of 5 million odd (and shrink
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