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Steinhoff

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Blik2
Occasional Contributor

Steinhoff

Ouch. That has to be the biggest 1-day-drop for a top 40 company I have seen since I started trading/investing. Einaa.

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Super Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Those that were short on the share have had Xmas early this year. Always found Steinhoff "murky", difficult to read.
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mosismoke
Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

The question is: Why did they deny it in the first place?
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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Goodnite Vienna

would you by a used car from....? Murky, obscure any one of those words will do. But it will likely bounce because Mr Market always overresponds to situations - and here is hoping it is recoverable.

Dr Wiese... not your best partnership I think ? 

 

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Blik2
Occasional Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Whats this called - a NAV oxymoron of sorts - not great to be Mr Wiese this morning, down by about 20 billion, but, hey whats all the fuss, then when you are/were worth 58 odd billion...lol.  NOT

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

BUT if you buy blind - which at 14bucks is tempting - you have no idea what is actually going on now cos all the key stuff is going to be restated.. 

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Perhaps the better question is Why did the market deny it?

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Regular Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

I Guess for me......It is time to but more!!!

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Regular Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

meant buy more!!!

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

So here is how I see it they are going to sell off some non  -core businesses (?) and then refinance debt in Star owing to Steinhoff whic the notice says they

will do at better rates (!!!!!)  ( which kind of asks and answers a question - do you wnat to ever

be involved in incestuous companies where the main share holders treat it like a private company - like some inglorious example of co- dependency - except they are using your and my money?)

I see no reason to rush in. I suspect that trading will not be good for their international operations - at least not stellar. Secondly the nwxt CEO ? Strikes me that only after next half yearly will one have a clear(er) picture. 

I am glad I was underweight.  NOT so some asset managers.........ouch!!

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

stick with the "but" protem?
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Blik2
Occasional Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Got this from Sanlam yesterday:

 Steinhoff sum-of-the-parts valuation excluding European operations

 

ZAR/share

 Steinhoff Africa Retail

     11.57

 PSG Group

       3.76

 KAP Industrial

       1.80

 Total listed assets

     17.13

   

 SA Automotive

       0.50

 Mattress Firm acquisition

       6.78

 Poundland acquisition

       2.21

 Other 2016 acquisitions

       0.45

 Total excluding European operations

     27.07

   

 European operations' value based on last official information

    Household goods operations

     30.29

    Supply chain operations

     15.05

    Property

     10.67

 Worst-case German JV court case (EUR1.9bn)

      (6.34)

 Potential further fines EUR2.0bn

      (6.67)

   

 Net debt & minorities estimate at 30 September '17

    (11.97)

 Total value before discount

     58.10

   

 Less 20% conglomerate discount

   (11.62)

 Less 20% credibility discount

   (11.62)

 Total group value under bear-case scenario

     34.86

 

Is this a classic value trap building?

 

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Super Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Vince, hope you still got your shirt on. It would appear that this fire is spreading and everyone is getting very jittery, EOH took a bit of a bath this afternoon. Great movement in price without any SENS,........ insiders maybe?

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Regular Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

Steinhoff was me biggest holding.....Ouch I admit. I think market over reacts to everything. Yes I do think it is a serious problem for Steinhoff and I do not believe it is another african bank.When all is revealed and the dust has settled, I will buy more. Look at Pinnacle with the bribery saga and got sold off. It recovered and many said it will never recover. Alviva is now sitting on R18 and if I remember correctly it dropped from about R24 to below R5.

 

Will wait patiently until audited financials are released. May wait even until the 2018 interims, but will nibble on Steinhoff. Not all is lost.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Steinhoff

its rough out there - up and down - you know the metaphor. Buffet was right It was run by an idiot. Work with me on this Vince - you said it was your biggest holding and now you are increrasing the risk by wanting to buy more- just go and watch the 7's much more productive - this is a day traders dream  NE TOUCHE PAS - for me.....  

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