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Parttimer
The human brain cannot think faster than a computer. If you have an artificial intelligence package which does data analysis for you, you can very quickly find trading opportunities. One cannot analyse all 800 or so companies on the JSE in one's head. A trader trades price action regardless of sector. Secondly one uses maths, like moving averages, stochastics etc to determine entry and exit points. So Werner is correct, it's all about maths.

Frequent Contributor

10-06-2014 01:46 PM

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Rams

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 01:54 PM

If you believe that it's ALL about maths, then you are doomed as a trader.....

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Parttimer
Rams, so what do traders use to determine entry and exit points? Intuition (no), fundamental (no), osillators (yes!!). Then one looks at any news and bang you are in business. Enough said from me, I'm going for a swim

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10-06-2014 02:01 PM

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Werner_1

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 02:06 PM

RAMS, what's it all about then?

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Rams
DISCIPLINE..... When Simon first posted it here, I also resisted it, until I started I trading the ALSI 15 minutes.

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10-06-2014 02:17 PM

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Werner_1
OK, so if people employ DICIPLINE, they dont need anything like technical indicators of any sort, DICIPLINE alone will make them profitable?

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 02:18 PM

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Rams

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 02:29 PM

Surely, you are not serious?

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SimonPB
discipline and price .. yip that enough, if you wanna get technical toss in a moving average or three ..

Valued Contributor

10-06-2014 02:37 PM

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Werner_1

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 03:07 PM

Ok, cool. but that now will involve some mathematics, right?

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Werner_1
This is the most stupid argument ever... I think we can conclude that mathematics is important to some degree, discipline is important too, obviously... but even if you only require discipline and price, what are you going to do with that singular value, possibly compare it to something else, like another price from 15 minutes or 1 hour or 1 day ago? so you will be doing mathematics.. this started off by saying that maths isnt important but it turns out that this process will not be possible without maths? true or not?

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10-06-2014 03:12 PM

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Werner_1
So, a totally automated system that uses whatever logic you use in your trading would add an incredible amount of discipline together with your logic... this should work, provided the logic works flawlessly, which is normally the problem. then even with discipline it will fail if its not correct or sustainable? or am i now missing the point?

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10-06-2014 03:14 PM

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SimonPB

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10-06-2014 03:19 PM

well moving average is maths, low level but maths yes .. but otherwise no, price is just price

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Werner_1
yes, but what do you do with the price? compare it to something perhaps? I think that might involve maths. bottom line, maths is involved and if you have a good system where maths is involved you can make money using it in an automated trading system.

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10-06-2014 03:24 PM

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SimonPB
fair point, even if just gap or momentum systems (price only) there is maths .. bottom line any mechanical trading system should be able to be programmed so it can just trade

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10-06-2014 03:31 PM

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Rams
You forget something , the system can never be 100 %....and it has to be fed,,,,,you have to put in money for it to function.....will you have the discipline to feed it when , it is in the 30% losing cycle .....yes that's what you been missing

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10-06-2014 03:31 PM

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Werner_1
If its totally automated, it would get fed from the start and would handle stoplosses and money management, otherwise its not a totally automated algorithm trading system. And of course one will back test and back test and if you are happy, why not stick to your disciplines in a decline? do you do that with your current trading system? how disciplined are you?

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10-06-2014 03:36 PM

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Brainware
Have you looked at quantitive analysis? There are some Unit trusts called Quant funds which uses this type of analysis There are packages that do daily recommendations according to certain strategies - would you like to automate the trading part as well?

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10-06-2014 04:04 PM

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Werner_1
my view would be that everything needs to run 100% by itself, analysis, trading, selling, money management... if this could be built it would make a great project!

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 04:08 PM

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Preston

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 04:16 PM

@RAM..not sure if you are aware of this fact, Werner is a programmer and he does this for a living.

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Rams
Werner , you still missing something...the money has to come form somewhere for the system to function...like fuel that makes the car go...

Super Contributor

10-06-2014 04:18 PM

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