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Online Share Trading

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Chartist's 50K day

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Ninja
Super Contributor
I personally trade for almost identical reasons. I do not want to be at the whim of the corporate world and the government (BEE) in terms of feeding my family. I am a 37 year white male, I need an independent,safe way to make money anywhere in the world. It really isn't about mega wealth, it is about security and flexibility. A greedy trader will almost always burn out in a greed fueled msitake.....a working day trader knows his profit targets and how his system will get him there, regardless of what the goverment or anyone else does to jeopardise his 9-5 work options, he is truly free and independent. He does not need a huge capital base to work from and he doesn't give a damn what the market is doing as his analysis will put in the right direction. Investing is great, but has its limits with these goals in mind.
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louisg
Super Contributor
trading is about income generation. Are you telling me that traders trade to spend it all BEFORE it can compound and create wealth or is it just you? Other forumites please enlighten this investor. I'm reading "Trend Following" at the moment and every "elite" traders' performance that is mentioned in the book is based on annual compounded growth. They're creating wealth via trading. What am I missing? Don't investors and traders create wealth in the long term by investing/trading the market? I understand that one can "make a living" by trading, but surely it's their goal to increase their wealth over time from trading?
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john_1
Super Contributor
try not be be a chop. You can do what ever you want when you have fee cash flow.. but full time trading like every other profession has cost, takes time and there are good times and bad times.. and the guys in that book are compounding sure, but so am I when I trend follow on shares, we are talking highly geared highly traded futures contracts.. you simply can not scalp a market with a 1000 contracts... you can outperform the index with ease by trend following..
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Ninja
Super Contributor
LG, you have a charm that is timeless - thanks for your kind request to all forumites to assist me with my limited understanding of the markets. I don't spend all my profits, of course I invest a portion into long term investments / property etc etc. What I am saying is that if I lost my job today trading would pay my bills, my long term investments wouldn't as I don't have enough cash sitting in these investments to live of the returns they currently deliver. If you are already in this position you are fairly wealthy and probably a lot wealthier than most traders starting out. Secondly, I nor anyone else is having a go at long term investing as it works - trading simply delivers certain returns that long term products don't offer without massive capitalisation. I wish you all the very best and truly hope that your investments deliver above and beyond your wildest expectations.
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louisg
Super Contributor
Come on JayJay, you can do better than that to rattle my cage. You have expressly said that 20% a month trading is easy. Why can't you then make 20% a month on an increasing amount? Is their a limited amount of money that a trader can trade for such a monthly return? If a trader can make 20% with 100k, what prevents the trader from doing it with say 10 million. If I can make 20% a month with 10m I have no need for a 20% annual compounded return investing. Please explain to this boring, low-skill investor because I just don't get it. Regards, your neighbor LG.
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john_1
Super Contributor
you ever watched who want to be a millionaire???... why is it nobody gets to a million after all its just 15 question with the answer in front of you.. you chop....its called human nature. And yes even that may be beyond you...
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louisg
Super Contributor
Hi Ninja. It's not that either Werner or I have anything against trading. We just choose to invest rather than trade. We attempt to offer our first hand experience (for whatever it's worth). Why John always tries to have a go at investing, only he can answer. I get confused when on one hand he expresses an opinion that belittles investing and tags its proponents as buffoons, yet above he says "Truth is I would love to be an investor only".....go figure. It wasn't too long ago when John came cap in hand looking for 300k from the forumites. With the ease that he purports to "extract profit", I would think that that kind of money is all in a weeks trading....or NOT. Just cheap talk from a wannabe I guess.
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louisg
Super Contributor
Probably because they never learnt to SPELL properly.
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john_1
Super Contributor
exactly..thats exactly the cause of my issues. Well done you figured me out.. I had to learn to do it all a different way because I can't spell..
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Shaun_Siddall
Super Contributor
John if you so good at trading why do you have to use this forum to try and elicit working/venture capital from the forumites for your new ventures? Not everybody has to be like you and do what you do - it is great if you make money but never be ashamed to talk about the bad trades. It would be nice to know over the last 18 months how many net positive months you had? As mentioned you trade many times a day but at the end of the month it is your net position that counts. I am sure even some of the long term investors get it wrong (over a long period of time). By the way good luck with your venture.
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Nello
Occasional Contributor
Does anyone else remember Chartist proclaiming (on this forum) that it is impossible to consistantly make money trading highly geared products ??
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john_1
Super Contributor
Hozit Shaun.. first off an no point have I said I am a good trader in fact compared to my old sparing partner ..Chartist I would consider my trading to be a realative failure. I have put in thousands of hours of time and research and as yet can not say that I am a master or even close to that..for two reasons my statergies are longer term (hours) but my feel and instict and market awareness has been developed on much shorter time frames.. so I often get caught in two minds between what I can see happening and what my statergies demand of me... Second, the stratergies I developed required quite large draw downs at times and that is fine when you deeling in 1 or 2 contracts but when the system you are using demands that I sit through a draw down of more money than I need for the whole month, I failed to hold my cool ofen, and would break from the disipline of my system.. they are not unique problems and I have often commented on them over the years. As a result I make money but have I excelled.. no.. not by my own standards.
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john_1
Super Contributor
As two the second part of the question.. Why raise funding... In 2009 I worked for 9 months without any income on this project, my trading and my research were not compatible in time or recourses and at the beginning we thought it would take only a couple of weeks to complete. So it made sense to work on the project. I have also worked the last two months without trading, committing large parts of my day to it since we began the funding process. So that's 11 months in total up till this point. I was able to do that because of the capital my wife and I had accumulated and set aside, but that has limits and although we could have self funded. I chose to try and do it differently.. The reason for using the forum.. Simple... I wanted access to retail traders with an appetite for risk...not a week goes past without some newbie telling us how he blew 10's of thousands of rands on some ***** trade he knew nothing about.. Retail traders have a much higher appetite for risk then the venture capitalist I have met. The funding was a great success in my mind, as we filed the patents yesterday... so my instinct about retail investors was correct
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Shaun_Siddall
Super Contributor
As i mentioned goodluck - you got have balls to do what you are doing.
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john_1
Super Contributor
thanks mate.. one thing I do know about myself, is I am not afraid to fail fantasticaly, as a result I am always up for a challenge and I am willing to take on what other might consider risk.... Life is a journey and I love to learn.
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dilligaff
Super Contributor
All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. - Samuel Beckett
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