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Online Share Trading

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Does anyone here trade for a living?

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Not applicable
ahmen..u can never have the self respect you deserve when someone else is leveraging your labour..
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Not applicable
Thanks Dookie, that was what I was looking for. Right now I am typing this reply worried about the 100 things I need to do here @ work. I have quite an admin orientated job and apart from hating admin, I am doing it for someone else besides myself. I can only imagine the kind of freedom you experience not having to give 80% of your time and energy to a corporate for a 6% raise after a year of service... Anyways, enough of the self pity. At the moment I am reducing my expenses (paying off my car, selling my two investment properties (which are bringing me to my knees in this environment), etc), as well as slowly building my trading account. Most importantly, I am trying to start up a samll business for my wife, who I pray will be able to cover our expenses in about a year. The long term plan is there! The markets are my true calling and is the only subject I could study forever.
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dookie
Regular Contributor
Ah... Well that all sounds quite promising. I just wanted to add... I think lots of people here are day traders - I don't know anything about that and trade over a few days or weeks myself. This seems to be the best approach for me so far. If you can find out a way to make money like that - it might actually help if you've got a day job or something (I have an out of control plant obsession...) to keep you away from the screen. I don't use it myself, but it seems that the Pateman-Brown-Guppy system or something like it could be feasible :-)
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Amar
Contributor
Jonno I work full time as, being trading part time for about 2.5 years fairly unsucessfully, only made small losses but am enjoying the learning experience...think most us would love to be full time traders but I think you should realise there are other ways to make money such as starting your own business..etc.... so trading isn't the only way to leave full time employment behind you...
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louisg
Super Contributor
Chartist, am I understanding you correctly. Are you suggesting that one should not create employment for others?
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theyoungster
Super Contributor
im a student studying, and working, enjoy trading forex, cfd oil futures been pretty successful on a small scale, i live of some of my trading cash although it be cuz live with parents ect ect...
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Not applicable
Right on, C. Workin for the man is humiliating. To call a dude 'boss' is like, a big, big suckfest. I been a jobsworth for eight months now, and after nearly 20 years of self-unemployment, its crushing. Gawd, I even shave every day. And wear shoes. I tell ya, it just aint worth it. Time for plan D..
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john_1
Super Contributor
What is Plan B..not working for you,
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Never was a Plan A, which means Plan B was default A, making Plan C me Plan B, but if Plan B (me A) didna work, then it was time fer C, which is D, to get me outta Plan B (C) of which I have had enuff.
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Not applicable
Thanks guys. I see we have quite a variety of trader types here. The most laid back being the longer time-frame guys. Heres a very naive question that I honestly dont know the answer to... Lets suppose that chances of winning in a trade is 50/50, and the strategy is to start small, cut losers short and let winners run and pyramid them, cutting only when the fundamental trend slows / reverses... Why can we not win, consistently and safely, over the long term, in a stable/cyclical trending stock with this strategy?
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dookie
Regular Contributor
I think it has to do with compounding. Say you do ten successful trades in row @20% ea... or whatever. You only need one large loss to turn that all around. I suppose the size of the possible loss depends on what you're trading. I think there's fundamental problem with pyramiding. When you're winning, you win a percentage of your starting sum. If on your next trade you lose (and you've pyramidded everything) you loose a percentage of your latest total. A 20% loss is always bigger than a 20% gain. So, if your chances are exactly 50/50, you're guaranteed to lose! Even if you set your loss limit to less than 20%, will you on average be able to cut your losses so as to make a nett gain? Me thinks that's the difficulty.
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Not applicable
No Dookie, I dont mean pyramidding as in betting bigger on the next trade, I mean adding to your winning position in the same trade and adjusting stops down as the trade becomes more profitable. Example: I short MTN at 100 with 1 contract. If it hits 105 I get stopped out on the 1 contract with a loss of 500 and its over. But if it moves say to 90, I sell another contract and adjust stops down to 97.5. So if I now lose, I will still only be R500 out of pocket. But if I gain and MTN dips to R85, then I win big and consider increasing further depending on strength of the trend. Point I am making is instead of adding to losing positions, add to winning positions and cut losers short immediately. Stratergy is to preserve capital in search of the big move that you have forecasted correctly. Every trade you begin will be with the smallest position possible, and only added to if the position shows a predetermined gain.
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dookie
Regular Contributor
Oh.. Okay. Yes - exactly. I learned the hard way never to increase exposure as you're loosing... As they say - much better to double up than double down. And I also learned that doubling a position is quite risky... even a winning one. The best deals seem to be to gradually phase the capital in as your trade progresses in the right direction. I think the initial trade should be small enough that you're willing to let it go to zero. Too often, I've cut the loss (perhaps 30 - 40%) only to have things reverse soon afterwards. I'm starting to think that the only trades worth their while are the good old reliable patterns: H&S, rising wedge, double top etc. They seem to offer the best value. Just on stop losses - with recent volatility I found it necessary to set and maintain HUGE bands for stop losses. On something like BIL 15% on the underlying is not excessive at all. That translates to about 60% with gearing which can become unsettling when things are going against you. I have lost the most when I didn't keep to that strategy and increased my eposure without havning enough reserve margin and then had to start closing positions. By keeping lots of reserve margin you effectively dilute your gearing, but with the recent huge moves (BIL 40% in a week) I think one can nevertheless make good money. The movements are so rapid that it isn't necessary to make use of the full gearing. I think Charty also said somewhere here that the biggest mistake people make is to take positions too large for their portfolio and not to have wide enough stop losses. I've done that before :-)
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Not applicable
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