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Online Share Trading

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Not applicable
We in the third world or monkey land for them brain's .... lates news for day trades at reuters ... crazy man ... http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5667JR20090707
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richardw
Super Contributor
So the only time we should be using derivatives is when we think there's going to be movement in the underlying during the period we hold it. The rest (80%?) of the time seems perfect to hold high-div shares. Then, don't you guys think we (traders) over-use derivatives?
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ian_kotze
Regular Contributor
Not really but you must except smaller gains and make smaller losses in a range bound market.
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richardw
Super Contributor
...knowing that trading costs and time decay start eating into your reward. There has to be a point where it's small enough that it's not worth it.
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ian_kotze
Regular Contributor
Use more gearing and smaller timeframes as to catch smaller movements taking less time to complete and so saving on time and still making profit, you need to be strict with yourself in such traiding to make it work and know how to take a loss. Fear and greed will be your worst enemy here.
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Not applicable
Agreed, I have been trading short bursts of longs over past 3 weeks with good results and had only 2 short trades in this time
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Not applicable
I agree with the smaller trades and profits. I was trying to get Russ to answer the entry and exist senario I set up. Anyway my entry would have been 30c and exit at most 32c but usually 31c. So after all my costs I only walk away with R800. Not alot you say? well do that 10 time a month and then repaeat for 12 months. You end up with a tidy R96k PROFIT. OK for the doom sayers out there say i get stopped out 50% of the time. I still make R48K for little risk and usually intraday or at most 2 days holding.
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Russ
Super Contributor
Sorry,CPS, I was worried about getting the answer wrong and losing some of my virtual money.Your approach would work for me if I can keep greed at bay.In fact if I had followed this approach I would be less poor than I am today.Did your gramps have any more good sayings?
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Not applicable
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Electrox
Super Contributor
Vitorc what comms are you getting ? as i also trade a similar way you do...
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Not applicable
CPS, pardon my sceptisism, but I don't think short term scalping with warrants works. A 30c warrant spread sets you back at least 3% before you have even started, so assuming you can get the trade right 50% of the time ( a big assumption), then you need a 6% move on the warrant to break even, excl transaction costs. If your success rate is less than 50%, then your warrant gains required goes up linearly. And heaven help you if your share gaps down
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Not applicable
Skaap, normally I would agree with you but in the present market with many a share trading sideways and rangebound these trades are not impossible. Take AMS for example. I have "scalped" this a few times in the last few days for a tidy profit. Quick ins and then outs the same day or maybe the next day. Just 1 or 2c moves and the share moves between 515 and 500 that is a small move in a day but enough to take small earnings when required. Long term yes you will likely loose to the decay and your "confidence" (read greed) will get the better of you and you might take the wrong direction. btw AMS is starting to develop a long signal but that i guess will depend on Plat prices and R/$ etc.
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Russ
Super Contributor
Thank you all for your tips and advice. These all help to improve my chances, just as OST free trading courses help. I would nevertheless like to see stats on how many traders actually make money in the various forms of derivative trading. I would like to see this site carry a notice of this nature:"Be warned: in warrant trading the odds are stacked against you due to the costs, the spreads and time decay. Only 2% of warrant traders make a lot of money; a further 5% make consistent profits; the remaining 93% lose money over time; many of our clients become addicted to trading, and some lose their life savings; regrettably, we don't have reliable statistics on how many marriages are wrecked as a result of heavy losses, nor how many suicides result". Over-dramatic? Maybe, maybe not. (Does Standard Bank offer free counselling services for those addicted, like the casinos do?) Maybe my figures are thumb-sucks, but I just see new names appearing and disappearing on this forum all the time. Is there a trader's graveyard somewhere I don't know about? It is all very well receiving platitudes like "cut your losses, let your winners run", but I would still like to see the stats. Your golfing pro would not say to you: "Just shoot 70 every round and you will be able to earn a living from golf". This would be true but unrealistic.We all know that maybe the top 20 or so golfers in the world make a lot of money and maybe the next 100 or so can make a living out of it. We know that we cannot take up golf today and start making a living from it tomorrow. Yet everyone thinks they can do this with OST. Why are we so concerned about Ponzi and pyramid schemes where people lose a lot of money, and where the Madoffs of the world are brought to book and sent to jail, yet never hear of all the traders who lose a lot of money? In our law fraud is committed not only by an express misrepresentation but also by a silent non-disclosure of the facts WHERE THERE IS A DUTY TO DISCLOSE.Is there not a moral and ethical duty on Standard Bank OST to disclose the true state of affairs, even as they fuel our dreams on their free trading courses? I have been to three courses and they have cost me about R300 000-00 each.Then they stopped providing free snacks! Am I a bad loser? You bet! Am I angry? Hell,yes! I know cowboys aren't supposed to cry (except maybe on Brokeback Mountain, snigger) but I just want others to be warned before they fully **** up their finances (sorry about the alliteration, ladies).Let the buyer beware, you say? Sure, but he/she still needs reliable information to make an informed decision. Come on, Standard Bank, we have shown you the money, now show us the facts!
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eddy66
Super Contributor
I've lost 600k since I started using financial weapons of mass destruction in April.The reason was over-gearing,greed,fear and stupidity.It was my fault and not OST's.Slowly clawing my way back.
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Not applicable
Even if OST gave a warning 'Only 10% of traders will make money' people will still trade. Everyone will think they are the 10%
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AJDK
Frequent Contributor
Exactly! Has anyone stopped smoking because of the warnings on the packs?
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Ninja
Super Contributor
If you trade you can lose...very simple...it's a ***** but its reality. I recommend trading smaller positions always following the 2% rule.....takes a lot of the stress out and lets you sleep at night as your capital is protected.
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Not applicable
Hey ninja, what exactly is the 2% rule, new at this...
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Not applicable
never expose more than 2% of your trading capital in a single trade (although I have a different system). Don't even think about trading - seriously - even just share purchases - if you haven't grasped the basic concepts of money management yet.
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
if we put huge health warnings and told all new clients that 90% loose money, it would mean nothing .. as mentioned below .. everybody thinks they're in the 10% (would it have stopped you? no it wouldn;t have) .. the point is that while the products are dangerous, if you don't know that well then frankly you shouldn't be allowed to manage your own money because you're throwing it away without knowledge .. that is dangerous .. further, it is not the products that loose the money, it is the lack of strategy, discipline, money management etc .. bottom line it is greed and the belief that you are a super hero ..
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