I think this share deserves it's own topic

[richardw]

Blew through 170, 160, toying in the 150's. My low-price alerts are just lighting up.

[barry_1]

I see an article on Moneyweb feels that Cynthia Carroll should "fall on her sword" as she has dumped AGL into major long term debt as she wanted to stamp her authority on the organisation.The company kept buying new high priced assets even when the writing was already on the wall....The former boss Tony Trahar a chartered accountant was conservative and never went into debt to buy an asset....Another bone of contention,she tried to introduce safety standards not suitable for mines,she also could not get along with the heads of each operation....Anglo also lost focus and for the first time in their history failed to pay a dividend.They are no longer number one in our country and have slipped to third place,still goning down further....I see amongst the comments they fell she should at least fall on hher lipstick!

[barry_1]

I the last tip on Summit,one of their talking heads(Chartists term) was saying last week that he was comfortable with the price of R182 and he expected it to go up this week to R200!....talk of putting your foot in it!

[gamma_spike]

div yield switch to BIL? or buy for capital gain in the 140's?

[barry_1]

Certainly no hurry ,perhaps better to see which way it goes as the next reporting period is still six months away,i'm still short a i feel as the repecussions sink in there is still a fair amount of downside to come....OMO

[Mr_S]

hmmm this doesnt do well for the perception of women in powerful positions!

[SimonPB]

Barry, not sure if the comment "safety standards not suitable for mines" is yours or moneywebs - but it is completely misguided .. how can an industry be happy with death being a by-product ?? Cynthia Carroll was spot on when she said death as a by-product of production was completely unacceptable .. Q2 2008 was the first quarter ever that ANG did not have a death in their work force !!!

[barry_1]

Sure u are right Simon,but when u mine as u mine deeper into the earth accidents are inevitable as the pressures down there are greater than anything out there to prevent such occurancies....Deep level mining ,has been called organised chaos....Miners should be made aware of the dangers and payed accordingly for the risks if they agree....All accidents are regrettable,but in all instances its not necessary to shut down large sections or all the mine,which seems to be the case now and then no work can resume before the government has fully investigated,and u know how slow they are.

[SimonPB]

but are they paid accordingly ?? an still how can any industry be happy with regular death ?? no other industry has death as a by product, why does mining get away with it ?? an imagaine what would happen to the price of gold.plat etc. if deep and dangerous mines were forced to shut due to safety issues ??

[barry_1]

I'm not arguing against you Simon,i also like safety,perhaps i'm only reflecting local managers frustrations as they are judged on production and down time counts against them....I personally feel that accidents must be prevented at all costs...They are not insensitive people ,but feel the approach is heavy handed,once an accident has occured and can be streamlined as nothing then done brings further relief to the victim,once he is removed from the scene.

[TOPIX]

And what would happen to unemployment.

[SimonPB]

I would think that if the deal is death or unemployment, that's an easy choice ??

[TOPIX]

Unemployment on that scale = slow death. RSA has one of the highest incidents of TB which is a direct result of poverty, malnutrition etc.

[Brazen]

Well said Simon. And with the risk of being labeled bleeding heart here we have the crux of the problem. Shareholder returns at any expense. And it's not just mining. As Y and B said the other day, they remember a time when ppl invested for 25 years. They expected capital growth above inflation and divis. During the past few years shareholders wanted a lifetimes growth in 6 months. And look where we are.

[richardw]

Death shouldn't be a by-product of driving either, but it's bound to happen. The only way they'll have no deaths is to get machines to mine, with no humans. People slip and die in the bath. How can you make a mine safer than a bath?

[Brazen]

But, as Simon pointed out, once they upped safety standards (at the cost of profits) ANG had no deaths that quarter. So it can be made safer, but its expensive.

[richardw]

Then I'm all for it, as definitely a miner shouldn't have to risk their life so someone (else) can make a few bucks. The costs of safety should be priced into the business. Two thoughts: - China et al certainly won't care as much, so will be cheaper. - A safe quarter is just a safe quarter. I'm still doubtful as to how safe a mine can be. I don't really want to buy a diamond ring for the lass, but that's unfortunately not a choice I have :) No amount of explaining why I don't like the business will get me out of that *sigh*

[john_1]

Lets get back to the issue at hand should we ask Cynthia to kill herself.....Truth is Anglo should never have taken on dept while it was buying back shares.. thats just stupid... Thats like trying to get americans out of dept by tripping the dept they have currently.

[Brazen]

Lets just send her down the mines for a quarter or two. Should take care of the problem.

[john_1]

No... because then they would shut down the mines and lose further production time..Whats the point of a public lynching if we can't watch.