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Online Share Trading

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Investing and taxes

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louisg
Super Contributor
John this is what I'm trying to figure out. I've ask this question on a number of occasions, but nobody answered in the affirmative, EXCEPT you. I don't trade, but my best guess is that one CAN make a living trading, BUT I would think that one would have to do it full time. As in life, if you are passionate/dedicated about something you tend to do well over time. Our approaches are different but I think we share a common goal. Each to their own. PS I'm self-employed.
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john_1
Super Contributor
LG it is possible..The market turns over R15 000 000 000 a day to make R5000 out of that is not only possible its boardering on a total lack of ambition.. as you are only looking to make 0.0000003 of the daily turn over. R5000 a day is an income exceeding R1000 000 a year. The points required to make that with 5 contracts(R100 000 capital employed) you need to catch 100 points a day...today we have had 623 points up so far and today is very very quite.
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louisg
Super Contributor
John surely if it was so simple then EVERYBODY would be doing it. Does anybody concur with John that it's so simple?
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Not applicable
John you bring the point across so well. From my first thread on the whole Investor vs Trader argument I stated quite clearly that I trade for a living but that I also invest for the long term. If you make R5000 (which is very easy) a day with 5 contracts, i.e. 100k capital deployed, you will make R100k for the month. Which is a 100% return. When I said 75% a month is not that much people want to crucify me. Of course long term investing has its place but it - oh what's that phrase you used... - Lacks Ambition! And I'm talking from the perspective of someone who is in the market full-time.
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Vano
Regular Contributor
I believe john's explanation is accurate in the sense that it is possible to do it. Whether it is easy to do, is a different matter entirely. Catch 100 points & make R5000 per day LEKKER!. Catch 100 points in the wrong direction, and lose R5000 a day-EISH. omo
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john_1
Super Contributor
I think we all understand it works both ways...the point is pick a number you want to make R2000...R5000...R20000..Now devide that number by 10 and it tells you how many points you have to make. if you can figure out how to consistantly make Just 30 points well then you need to devide Your "required points by 30 to find out how many contracts you need to trade...then set out to consistantly make that and you are a winner.
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louisg
Super Contributor
Yes Wena I agree with you, Buffett does lacks ambition, doesn't he? He just happens to ONLY have about $65 000 000 000 personal wealth. If only trading was so easy. Goodness even I would be doing it. A point here a pip there, why not? The money will just roll in. What happened to SKIPPY. We await to be enlightened with his/her trading abilities?
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louisg
Super Contributor
John you must be kidding. You sound like a damn salesman. 1,2,3... just like that. Why not just pick an amount you want to earn and BUY LOW and SELL HIGH. It's way easier said... than done.
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john_1
Super Contributor
LG Stop talking buffet we all understand he is rich..Talk from your own point of view..
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
I agree, Buffett really lacks ambition, he could have been so much richer if he just had a bit more ambition... Like it has just been pointed out, a very small mistake in the wrong direction can be totally and entirely desasterous. You know, by using compounding (like buffett) and by just getting a few shares, like MTN for example, could have made multiples of your cash in a very short time, look at MTN for 10 years, compound that and you will see what can happen, hardly a lack of ambition if you ask me, its a totally different skill set to select truely value shares and leverage the high divs thats possible when making such a acquisition. then i would almost say, looking over long term 10-20 years, the two types of investing could very well have a tough competition, that being if the trader hasnt made too many small mistakes that cost him...
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Not applicable
LG you obviously lack the ability to open up to new ideas of making the market work for you. As a very seccessful trader I will continue to do so and use my profits well by investing for the long term. You however will have to wait years for your financial independance if your buyng in this market and waiting for a return.
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
Wena, you really amaze me! why you so much against long term if you actually claim to have such a portfolio? wouldnt it be in your interest to actually agree on some of our points, or do you just not understand compounding? a huge profit per month on trading is good, but if you calculate that long term compounding can have a significant effect over the years, say 10, then 20 its exponentially increases, sooner than one thinks one will earn more than your fixed trading that is not compounding...
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john_1
Super Contributor
It is a simple process..R10000 a day with 10 contacts = 100 points a day..with 20 contacts its 50 points with 50 contracts it is 20 points. With 1 contact its 1000 points...It only a function of capital and consistancy.
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QD
Occasional Contributor
Good Day Shaun. I was very intrested in your note regarding taxes etc. Would you be able to give some advice or guidance regarding this to me via email. Much appreciated thank you [email protected]
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
Wena, how do you know louisg is not already financially independant? and please answer my comment, do you understand the compounding effect? long term (with compounding) vs short term is like comparing F1 to Le Mans cars, F1 will get you very fast off the mark, but Le Mans will get you much further in the end. F1 can had a small mistake (like a mistake at refueling) end the chances of a successful ending, while Le Mans can do much more on small mistakes... its the same... Wena please answer, how long have you been trading, i cannot recall your name since 2005?
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
what happens if there is a small lack of consistency?
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
Louisg, i think we must just surrender, accept that we are totally ambitionless and settle to be part of the Buffett club... what you say? I think Allen Gray is also a member of that club.
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john_1
Super Contributor
That is the point. Trading is all about money managment and consistancy...Ie. Never ever put more than a tinny fractiuon of your money on any one trade. Take only small losses and let your winners run.
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
True, i researched all about that, i think what some people here dont know if that i actually trade ssf and warrants as well, and considered myself very successful as well, but in my view long term, compounding WILL generate more money with way less risk, and much more room to make a small mistake (which is inevitable)
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Werner_1
Super Contributor
very quiet lately....
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