Targats and Exit stratergies

[#1]

Ninja, maybe we have to also look at it differently. Is a "day trader" a person that is in and out of the market at least once a day or could they still be so if they chose stratigic trades and entered say on a Tuesday morning and exited late Friday after the market moved 4% ? In my opinion and it has been said before, sometimes the stress of trading is trading to often so more considered trades could go a long way to building a portfolio than quick bursts.
Don't get me wrong playing the DOW and FTSE intraday is about minutes and you have to be quick and take small profit often but the bigger growth trades I think happen with less stress. If you watch Chartists videos carefully and listen you often see his R30k profits were not for the day but rather over days. He makes quick R2 or R3k profits just for fun (with he associated money and risk management) but I think he makes consistent money on longer trades. I could be wrong as I have no contact details for him to ask. If anyone has his details they could email me [email protected] or maybe pass on my details to him so he can contact me if he chooses.

[Hedgehog]

What an interesting topic - Can one make a living by trading? if I look at the gurus mentioned here such as Colin Abrahams and Simon, the question needs to be asked why they are at institutions earning a fixed income. This is no value judgement on them, I am sure there are other examples, but what it shows is that at least the gurus decided to earn a fixed income as well as trade. From my own experience the biggest problem with trading for a living is the emotional side - If you have to make a buy or sell call and you know your groceries has to be bought and the bond paid it influences your calls. It is very different to HAVE to make money than to make money on the side - completely different - if you have a string of bad calls your mood is affected - depression can set in - then you make some good calls and your spirits are up - you have to have the nerve for it. But then again I run a business and am starting another now and the emotions are about the same. Hasppy hunting out there.

[Ninja]

CPS, yes I agree there will always be a place for the longer trade and yes, some short term trades on the indexes may extend if the market allows. I do not want to stop trading equities over the longer timeframe however need to get to a point where I can bank a minimum $300 - $500 per day consistently to say I can earn a living from trading. Until then this is a learning curve and in reality a useful additional income stream but not a career replacing income stream which has to be the ultimate goal. I believe mentorship is a very powerful way of learning and I have found it very difficult to find a trusted mentor. (Hence my request fr a live trading room type of environment where theory can be put to the test with within a group of proven teachers and serious students) The rest is down to yourself.....discipline, patience and a system that works. We know there is no free ride, but how do we better equip ourselves to reach the next level?

[john_1]

If you want a mentor... try looking at tradingtribe.com

[Alonzo7]

Hi All. Interesting topic. Ninja, IMO it is very difficult to make R$x consistently each & every day. For the Month of October (Last month) for example I made R62K Profit after brokerage fees BUT excl taxes.The first 10 days of this month I made R0.00. (challenging to be consistent!!!!) I guess..I trade 85% of the day the other 15% I spend on taking and collecting my kids at school and extramurals, also on some admin on my property rentals portfolio). To earn a Living completely out of Trading is not easy at all!! I believe one has to have some form of backup in place eg. a spouse possibly holding down a good job... or passive income flow from, let's say a property rentals portfolio etc etc.I trade primarily normal equities, SSF's and mainly Warrants... I find that Warrants suite me very well!!! I basically trade on PRICE... buy Low & Sell high. I do not spend that much time on Tech Analyses BUT do consider it from time to time. I have been doing this for approximately 1 year now and on average trade between 1 & 3 times per day. My AIM is to continue with what I am doing, as I love it!!!!!!

[#6]

Aanhouers wen

[Ninja]

Thanks John.....useful but I am looking for someone alive and living in Cape Town with similar outlook as myself. I am beginning to think I have as much chance of finding that as of the summer eventually starting! Never mind, a gass of wine at Polanos kalk bay in the p*ssing rain is still better than sunshine in anywhere else in the country. Talking of wine here's a toast to all of you out there working tirelessly on the markets.....nothing truly worth achieving is easy, so lets face the music and dance.

[Goldbull]

There is no free ride on OST. You first have to be an investor to become a day-trader. Then above all, you have to have the initial capital to trade. Trading with a few thousand is not feasible at all, the margins are so low and the time-span is too vast, simply put there is no easy ride to make money. My strategy is from an investor's point-of-view. Reading countless books and burning on poor trades are not part of the learning curve. On the outset, you have to pick some winners otherwise stay away from here. To make it work you need a few million. So if you are a student forget it, you have to pay your dues in the real world to make enough capital to invest on OST.

[SimonPB]

I have never day traded, but have traded for a living .. the biggest problem a successful trader has (as far as I am concerned), is boredom .. it becomes another 9-5 grind .. hence one then seeks out new challenges and adapts the trading style to accomadate the challenges .. that's what my lazy system was born from ..

[#10]

See now here is someone that can share experience. What Alonzo has said is true. A spouse holding a paying job helps immensely I guess. But trading is a JOB and you have to be-able to replace your present take home income (say 25k a month or what ever) from your job with your trades before you can do it full time. If and ONLY when you can match your income from trading for at least 6 months EVERY month would I consider quitting a day job to do this. This gives you the 6 months gap you have saved plus living only with in your means of the take home salary. This is important to maintain your presnt life style AS IS. Many people have extra to burn and burn it fast so have nothing to fall back on. When you have "saved" your exist potential of min 6 months income you can consider doing this trading full time for 6 months to see if you can do it as a living. My guess is it could be a burnout career if you dont have diciplie to quit every few eeks and chill out.

[zindc3]

Hi. I have been trading for 10 months now. I'm in construction and as you all now times are tough. I started trading with the idea to help cover expenses. Now i'm doing it sort of full time. but just cause work is limited. I trade for myself, my business, fathers friend. Getting rather bussy here. The most k@kst thing is that the other people i trade for has there own views of when to buy and sell.(they have no real or lets just say no idea what they doing. TA non existend.) Anyway. I love what i'm doing at the moment. I'm like a spunge. every day i learn somtehing new. I make what i need to make and so far its looking not to bad. Would have been nice to see a pro do a trade from scratch or to go to a seminar that isn't 6 hours away. besides that Just need to work on my discipline.

[jack12]

I must agree and disagree with some of the comments made. a) You dont need a million to trade. b) you dont need to read every book there is out there. c) You dont have to work 24/7. d) you dont need to rely on other 'experts' expertise However you do need a few fundamentals a) common sense b) follow a trend c) know the difference between up and down d) know how to fill in a order and stop losses when those are understandable you reach your biggest challenge making yourself a trader (not the kiddy pipe dreams' i want to be') look in the mirror and learn and understand your fear of loosing money, of making nothing for the day and still going to sleep peacefully and not kicking the dog or the wife. The realization of profits everyone can accept. Your belief in yourself and your trades are paramount. and you have to learn the hard way is the biggest BS I ever heard in my life. In a forum there is a point in giving free advice, it is important to have healthy discussions over various trading strategies.

[#13]

Agree with Simon. Day trading would be a drag, therefore my mission is to turn trading into a pasive income stream with lazy trading or automated day trading. And speaking of - I see there's a website in the US that supplies you an automated day trading application in which you define your trading system and then shadow (forward) trade until you see enough paper profit, and then trades the market for you while you go to work/supermarket/on holiday.

[#14]

Goldbull I hear you on the student part. I am busy studying and with a small portfolio there is little you can do. I am however taking this as a chance to learn, not earn a living. In a few months of trading I have already learned so many things that no book can teach you and hopefully by the time I've graduated in 3 years I will have a bit more money and experience. My goal might seem a bit ambitious but I would like to trade for a living eventually. It seems to me that trading to supplement your income seems like the more popular choice as you still have some stability.

[Ninja]

Jack....if I don't make money in the day it won't be me kicking the wife and dog, it will be the wife kicking me while the dog chews on my a$$.

[divz]

Jack agreed ..would like to add a) decide whether you are a trader (day or otherwise) or investor and choose your weapons (ssf, warrants,forex,shares etc) wisely b) keep your system simple dont over analyse which i think many ppl do on this site c) Learn to trade long and short ie be a bull or a bear. Trading is not a perfect science and if you think it is you will pull out more hair than the money you make. Best way to learn is to teach yourself and develop a system that suits your temperament and risk exposure. Before trading full time determine your monthly average return over a period then build up your capital to the point where your average monthly return yields a living income plus some.

[richardw]

I like that strategy - buy low, sell high. Nice and sophisticated and ignores all the k@k. I also think that for most people (including me) trying to make a profit every day will kill you.

[doomsdayza]

another way to look at targets is not day based but repitions per month based. so instead of stressing yourself out trying to force out Rx a day, aim to make (for eg.) 30 - 40 Rx profitable trades over a month offset by the inevitable 10 - 15 (Rx) trades a month.

[Russ]

Simon could give us the figures,but I reckon the turnover of forumites is massive.I just see new names appearing all the time and others disappearing.People won't leave if they make money.I reckon 90% get wiped out.I once suggested that OST release their figures to warn the unsuspecting.Simon just said it wouldn't make any difference as people would still trade.I guess it's not in their interests to release the stats.My advice:be very careful about giving up the day job,you could be on the bones of your ass before you know it.

[jack12]

Thing is we dont know if they moved to a new platform or if they were wiped out. I started out simple the standard OST package. Then reading comments by the formites and some books and came to realise we try and make it complicated and reinvent the trading systems (like I/we make good money so it must take hard work) we were taught nothing comes easy or for free!! BS this is the most relaxed job I have ever had in my life. Yea the first 100k is hard work because you are afraid to loose it and the nerves get to you, 2nd 100k comes quicker and then you got 500k again the nerves kick in to much money for so little work?? and then you hit 1mil wow fantastic so you chill out make mistakes again the nerves get to you. Somewhere around this you realize you can keep it simple and still make bucks.