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Tax calc

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Frequent Contributor
I am not sure if I should use the sale exposure and purchase exposure figures in order to calc my trading profit/loss on futures in my IT12. If not, which sales & purchases less costs should I use?? This is my first time that I will be including this trading income in my tax return.
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Super Contributor
Good question, Sugar. Any tax experts?
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Super Contributor
I'm trying to get all this into my SARS efiling, don't know where and how does one represent a loss? Emailed SARS on Monday still waiting for response.
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Frequent Contributor
sugar snap, this topic unfortunately is a little complex. suggest you consult with a tax specialist or accountant specialising in tax returns. a one liner thrown out there is not going to comprehensively answer your give you meaningful answers. in summary, it needs to be determined if any proceeds from shares are capital or revenue in nature. only a sale will trigger a tax event and any costs relating to the purchase and sale of THAT (not any and all others) can be taken into consideration for that particular transaction. (unless you are a professional trader, then the picture is again a little different). bottom line, if you don't know yourself, then you need to draw on expert advice on a 1 on 1 basis.
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Frequent Contributor
Thx for advice, but there must be experts in the chat forum who trades futures. To my knowledge, future trading is of an income nature as this is more likely done on a daily basis. I consulted SARS as well but still waiting on them. I am glued up with other taxes and do a lot of people's tax returns as tax practioner, but none of my clients deal with this. What did you future traders do last year when completing your tax returns? Simon, can you shed some light on this?
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Valued Contributor
my account does my tax .. but the simle rule that was put forward in the budget speech of 2007 .. sell within 3 years and it is income ..
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Regular Contributor
Simon, how about running a Trading and Tax course just before filing season each year? I'm in.
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Valued Contributor
we don't do tax advice, and everybody has different so a one stop for all simply doesn't work ..
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Contributor
I agree a tax course would be a brilliant idea, I wud certainly attend
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Super Contributor
Hi Sugar Snap glad you're a tax consultant. OST says that all my trading statements have been submitted to SARS but I can't find these figures on my ITR12. Would you know how can I submit these statements via the efiling system?
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Frequent Contributor
Hi Hategauteng, I will certainly keep you posted as soon as I submit my ITR12. Only waiting on my trading info and then submit. Sars will not include this type of income automatically, only IRP5 income received from employers. It is quite an issue to get this kind of info, but will let you have it as soon as I find out. Are you still living in Gauteng?
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Super Contributor
Unfortunately still in Gauteng. As mentioned, also waiting for SARS to get back to me in the 24hours prescribed time. Thanks for your help glad I'm not alone on this one.
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Frequent Contributor
Simon, I am also in on a tax course like this one. I am sure you can find a tax expert from SARS to handle such a course, maybe mr Haxhum or mr Haupt. You will be fully booked on this course, that I can tell you.
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Frequent Contributor
hi sugar snap, yes, sorry, did not realise you were talking only about futures (which i unfortunately know little about). but the basic principles of earned / accrued would still apply. simons response addresses only the capital/revenue question from SARS no questions asked policy iro +3 years held (i forget the section in the act). the fact you are referring to trading already implies revenue. your question is tricky because i am guessing you are trying to formulate a consistent way forward on "money earned and spent on paper" but not yet realised ? hate gauteng, SARS will only pull IRP5 and IT3a info through to an IT12. even IT3b (interest earnings) are not reflected on the return. (although they have the info)
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Super Contributor
Hi once again. As I was reading your post, a reply came in from SARS efiling. They say that they can't help me and passed on contact details of other SARS depts. I will contact them but in the meantime how does one enter a negative on the efiling form? See below for the response from SARS in case anyone else is having this problem. Sugar Snap, any luck on your side?
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Super Contributor
This was in response to my query on how to attach my trading statements to my efiling forms. Dear eFiler, Thank you for contacting our helpdesk: Please note we have received your query however we are unable to assist you. This channel solely deals with E-fling from a technical perspective. For all tax related queries contact SARS. Should you require any further assistance, please contact the SARS helpdesk at 0800 00 SARS (7277) or alternatively e-mail your query to: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Kind Regards The SARS eFiling Assist Team Note : This query is now deemed closed at the E-fling assist team
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Frequent Contributor
Hi HG, why a negative amount, should this not be an expense then, what is the amount for? I gave up on SARS and will now contact another friend who is dealing mainly in shares, but some of his colleges might do futures as well. Will let you know. I do not know why the other future traders don't share this advince with us. Is this top secret ?
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Frequent Contributor
Hi Olilau, I am a futures trader and your profits/losses are real time, as you trade, not like shares when it only happens upon selling them. I am only trying to find out what I need to include in my IT12 (sales & purchases figures) less expenses, in order to calc my profit/loss which calcs automatically in efiling. It does not seem correct to include the purchase/sales exposure, as SARS might think that this is the actual rands involved. Would not mind to have such an amount to work with, but not the true reflection of future margins.
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Frequent Contributor
where would you want to enter a negative number ? i am guessing here for the sake of debate (in other words, not talking from experience) but i do not think you would be able to enter a negative number. you have either earnings as a positive number and/or deductions as a positive number. trading income i believe would be ringfenced, ie, you cannot deduct losses from "other sorces of income" only from current year trading income. if you had an overall loss, you would supply that info on a separate statement to SARS and would be able to deduct the loss from LIKE income in future periods.
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Super Contributor
The negatives are my losses incured in the SSF trades as well as the expenses involved in trading (brokerage etc). Do I need to submit my SSF losses? What sort on expenses does brokerage fall under, is there a code?
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