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Online Share Trading

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Tango
Super Contributor
Hi John.. I'm deadly serious about my money in the market - I'd go to the casino if I wanted to have fun throwing money around. I'm serious, but I'm not grumpy about my trading - I really enjoy watching market movement, I'm fascinated by technical analysis, and I'm grateful that I stumbled onto a field where there are no limits to the rewards for high performance. I'm relaxed about my trading and I don't lose a minute's sleep thinking about open positions, but I won't trade in a frivolous way, or 'take a punt' on anything.
I'm getting personal now, but I've found that my short time being actively involved in the market (only 2 years or so) has been an amazing process of self-discovery... setting goals, applying serious study to a field of interest, learning about my reactions to winning or losing money, dealing with fear and greed, and generally having a good think about what's important to me. I also took a massive (6-figure) loss early on, which was a life-changing experience for me. It took a lot to get back into the market and claw it back again. So, in short, I AM serious about this.
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john_1
Super Contributor
Tango I did not realize it had been that big a loss. ouch! How did it happen.....I agree about the journy of self discovery I have learnt so much about the market and myself, It is fantastic that you have come back from that, I hope my frivolous comments do a least bring a smile to your face from time to time.
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Tango
Super Contributor
Ok John, the whole story - classic beginner's mistake, compounded by stupidity and misfortune. I know people don't tend to talk about the size of their trades or accounts, but I'll give some detail anyway. Call it a cautionary tale for new traders.
I started out my share trading account with about R80k. Was very excited to be active in the market. Buying stocks and holding onto them was not interesting enough, and I enjoyed the adrenaline of buying and selling. Through the SFM site and the forum I discovered warrants and waves. Didn't pay too much attention to the way the instruments were hobbled by time- decay, wide bid-offer spreads, absent market-makers etc. I was more interested in leverage and low trading costs.
I opened a warrant account and moved about half my trading funds over. Started playing with warrants, and couldn't believe how easy it was to make money. The truth was I didn't have a clue, and I was simply going long, with gearing, on liquid TOP40 stocks. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, and any monkey could have made money. When I had traded my account up to R120k I thought I was god's gift to trading, and I couldn't miss.
So... I took another R100k out of my house.. it was spare money I had stashed in my access-bond. I threw the whole lot into the market, geared-up on a TOP40 wave. Within about 2 days the trade was up by around R45k. I wanted to take the profits out, but thought I would let it ride one more day.
The next day was red, and took me down close to break-even, but still positive. So I hung in for another day to see if it would climb back up. The next day the index was down -4%, and I was looking at a substantial paper-loss. So I hung in, waiting for it to climb again as it always did.
The market moved mostly sideways over the next few days, and I hung onto a paper-loss of about R40k, convinced it would turn around. Then we had another big move down - another -4% day. And the gearing on my wave was getting higher, and the barrier closer. My paper-loss was looking huge, and I started understanding concepts like 'stop loss', 'taking losses early', and generally, understanding leverage when it moves against you.
I had a sleepless night, but resolved to take action rather than hanging-in blindly for any longer and facing a complete wipeout if the barrier was eventually hit. I felt better about taking the decision, and the next morning I logged on and closed the position, for a loss of about R130k. In other words, all my initial trading capital, plus all the money I had previously made on the account, plus some of the additional money I put into the account.
The next big decision was to stay in the market and not run away burned-out. I spent a lot of effort trying to understand more about market mechanics, learn some technical analysis, understand trading psychology. I got back in and made back my losses over the course of the next 6 months or so. A happy story in the end, but I was close to a complete wipe- out, and an exit from the market before I had really started. Since then I've read a Jack Schwager book where one of the traders says something like "your first big loss the best trade you'll ever make". I agree whole-heartedly, because it really did peel back all the illusions and confront me with some truths... the market doesn't care how much you make or lose. You are responsible for your own success or failure. You are in control of your trading, not at the mercy of external forces. You can't trade someone else's point of view - you must follow your own system, which you trust and has been proved successful . Your previous trade has no impact on your next, and previous trading success or failure means nothing. And I've lost my fear of the market - now when I put a trade on, I'm relaxed and content with the outcome, regardless of what that may be.
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Preston
Super Contributor
I am glad that you have recovered your money...hopefully it can get only better. best of luck and thank for sharing your story with us. I was about to enter the gearing market... But It was Brazen comment which read something like this "Understand how the market work first, invest in a company for 5 year and then sell" I can honestly tell you the more i analyses that comment , the more thankful i am for that advise.
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Brazen
Super Contributor
Remember Preston, you don't have to sell after 5 years, you can hold for 10 or 20! And a great lesson from Tango. Sadly, not a unique lesson. The only reason I can tell you to buy and hold is cos I went the same gearing route as Tango at pretty much the same time. I've had a portfolio of shares for years and all I ever did was check it at tax return time. Then I also discovered warrants and waves. I also made the same killing and also thought I was God's gift to trading. I then lost about 60k on three trades, one after the other. All my previous profits. Scared the bejesus outta me. And as Tango says, you learn from those losses like you never do from the gains.
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Preston
Super Contributor
Once again. Thank you for your invaluable advise.
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Brazen
Super Contributor
Just did an interesting calculation Preston. If you'd put 100k in Anglo 2 years ago it'd now be worth 307k, 100k in Billiton would be worth 224k. And before you think it's just resources - 100k into TigerBrands would not be worth 203k. And for that you would have had to do absolutely nothing. Just sat here chatting. And don't forget, that's just capital growth, you would have also had exceptional dividends.
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Wizard
Super Contributor
The God's gift to trading Buffett himself was ones 50% down in a year. He was trading shares that time
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Preston
Super Contributor
I do have some money invested in BILLITON, but i have heavily invested in SAB , hoping it might do well. As Dr Clive Roffey explained on summit on Friday, SAB have been underperforming. Hopefully i can catch that wave at the right swell and ride that wave out. By the way ,can you recommend any reading material (books) that i can read to enhance my knowledge...
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john_1
Super Contributor
Apart from these pearls of wisdom and tales of woe, Read the the Motley fools books , it explains beatifuly the power of compounded interest. all books on Buffet and my personal favorite, The great crash of 1929.
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Not applicable
cheers Tango that was interesting and usful to know - all the best
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john_1
Super Contributor
Hey Tango Thats very cool to have shared your story it makes me feel so much better to hear you recovered your losses. Well done. I think that sombody should post this thread off to 4shared as a tale of warning.
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Preston
Super Contributor
Hi there John. We missed your contribution last week. Do not worry i have read about your expenditure. Pls give me a title so that i can check if Kalahari.net has that book in stock....
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
tango, ya as you know my theory is that every successful trader was taken to the cleaners initially (for me more then once as I was stubon). I suspect it is what ultimately makes us good traders, as we fully understand and more importantly have experienced the risks.
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john_1
Super Contributor
Simon how big is your.... I mean.. how much moola did you loose first time out?
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Tango
Super Contributor
yep, not all of them, but most of them. Some time after I had climbed back in the saddle I read "Market Wizards", and I was encouraged to find out that most of those legendary traders had suffered a very sharp and painful loss early in their careers. It was good to know that you can still be successful in this game without being a 'natural' or prodigy of some sort - hard work on yourself and technique brings rewards.
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john_1
Super Contributor
Have a look for these. I have not read all but I believe they are great.Technical Analysis explained - Martin J Pring Market Wizards - Jack D Schwager The New Market Wizards - Jack D Schwager Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets by John J Murphy New frontiers in Fibonacci trading by Michael Jardine Candlestick Charting Techniques by Steve Nison amazons total for all 6 was R1600 (exl shipping)
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
over 4 months in early 1998 I lost 2 x R50k portfolios, made awesome paper profits - but never actually cashed in a profitable trade. Worst was a SOL call, was up 64% and then went on holiday for 3 weeks, returned to -50%. To my very small credit I never held to worthless, albeit that may have then taken me longer to bust out if I had...
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Preston
Super Contributor
Simon If "only the force was with you" in 1998.
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Not applicable
Hi Brazen. Are you a trader or an investor?
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