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06-12-2017 11:12 AM
would you by a used car from....? Murky, obscure any one of those words will do. But it will likely bounce because Mr Market always overresponds to situations - and here is hoping it is recoverable.
Dr Wiese... not your best partnership I think ?
06-12-2017 11:49 AM
Whats this called - a NAV oxymoron of sorts - not great to be Mr Wiese this morning, down by about 20 billion, but, hey whats all the fuss, then when you are/were worth 58 odd billion...lol. NOT
07-12-2017 10:32 AM
So here is how I see it they are going to sell off some non -core businesses (?) and then refinance debt in Star owing to Steinhoff whic the notice says they
will do at better rates (!!!!!) ( which kind of asks and answers a question - do you wnat to ever
be involved in incestuous companies where the main share holders treat it like a private company - like some inglorious example of co- dependency - except they are using your and my money?)
I see no reason to rush in. I suspect that trading will not be good for their international operations - at least not stellar. Secondly the nwxt CEO ? Strikes me that only after next half yearly will one have a clear(er) picture.
I am glad I was underweight. NOT so some asset managers.........ouch!!
07-12-2017 11:46 AM
Got this from Sanlam yesterday:
Steinhoff sum-of-the-parts valuation excluding European operations
Steinhoff Africa Retail
Total listed assets
Mattress Firm acquisition
Other 2016 acquisitions
Total excluding European operations
European operations' value based on last official information
Household goods operations
Supply chain operations
Worst-case German JV court case (EUR1.9bn)
Potential further fines EUR2.0bn
Net debt & minorities estimate at 30 September '17
Total value before discount
Less 20% conglomerate discount
Less 20% credibility discount
Total group value under bear-case scenario
Is this a classic value trap building?
07-12-2017 03:29 PM
Vince, hope you still got your shirt on. It would appear that this fire is spreading and everyone is getting very jittery, EOH took a bit of a bath this afternoon. Great movement in price without any SENS,........ insiders maybe?
07-12-2017 07:21 PM
Steinhoff was me biggest holding.....Ouch I admit. I think market over reacts to everything. Yes I do think it is a serious problem for Steinhoff and I do not believe it is another african bank.When all is revealed and the dust has settled, I will buy more. Look at Pinnacle with the bribery saga and got sold off. It recovered and many said it will never recover. Alviva is now sitting on R18 and if I remember correctly it dropped from about R24 to below R5.
Will wait patiently until audited financials are released. May wait even until the 2018 interims, but will nibble on Steinhoff. Not all is lost.
08-12-2017 11:28 AM
its rough out there - up and down - you know the metaphor. Buffet was right It was run by an idiot. Work with me on this Vince - you said it was your biggest holding and now you are increrasing the risk by wanting to buy more- just go and watch the 7's much more productive - this is a day traders dream NE TOUCHE PAS - for me.....