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Christmas rally

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Hali
Super Contributor
Lol no.. Long AMS.. But will cut this morning.. A nice run up since Friday..
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Rams
Super Contributor
Well right now, terroristsmustfall , all i need is a bullet proof vest...off to Europe. Maybe will get to see the christmas rally there.
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Preston
Super Contributor
@Rams, enjoy your trip.
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Hali
Super Contributor
Wow.. there is no Christmas this year.. Its a blood bath for the mining stocks..
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rsalie
Super Contributor
It's too early to go Long on the miners I think.
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Hali
Super Contributor
I will start looking at the big miners at the following levels: BIL - Below R150 AGL - Below R70 AMS - Below R170
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
KIO getting nailed, cutting production to focus on lower cost mine areas, but costs still way above BIL & RIO
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
the bottom could be well below .. trend is down, trade it
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Preston
Super Contributor
@SimonB..err, what % is the Weighted Average Cost of Capital that is included in their $45 cost of production?
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Hali
Super Contributor
Just curious.. Why do these miners allow the consumers to decide the commodity prices.. Why cant they say it costs us 50 DOLLARS to manufacture a ton of Iron ore.. We want a 20% margin.. Take it or leave it.. That would be simple business.. Atm the companies are at the mercy of the consumers(US and Asian buyers)
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
because somebody under cuts you and in this space the buyer has all the power. OPEC sorta did it with oil for a while, trick was they controlled some 70% of global supply and manage process by producing accordingly. Plat guys have also spoken of trying this, nothing as yet
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Hali
Super Contributor
There is no other way.. Platinum is in the 800 dollars, most of the producers at this level are producing and selling at a loss.. Now sound business practice is that is not sustainable.. They have use ordinary old business philosophy of cost plus a markup way of doing business..
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
but they need everybody on board coz if say IMP sells at cost plus they selling at say $1750, why buy from them when open market is $800 .. of course IMP have effectively then removed their supply and this would help prices higher, but to $1750 higher and if they hot that then IMP supply hits market and price collapses .. if supply / demand all they can do is manage supply
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
preston I hope for KIO and their shareholders sake most of it
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Preston
Super Contributor
@simon, I want Iron ore price to drop to $30. Let see how BIL and Rio Tinto react to that price. This is pure economics. Manage cost, be strategic in your optimalization of mine.
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Preston
Super Contributor
@simon, I want Iron ore price to drop to $30. Let see how BIL and Rio Tinto react to that price. This is pure economics. Manage cost, be strategic in your optimalization of mine.
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Preston
Super Contributor
@simon, do not be surprised that foreigner will be holding a major shareholders of the remaining 15% free float in KIO.
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Hali
Super Contributor
If I was the mining minister I would call IMP , AMS and Lon in a room.. Say you guys control the majority of platinum production in the world.. We don't sell a dollar under 1250.. That's it.. The market cant just stop using platinum.. It will force the consumers to pay..The miners will be profitable and it will be good for the company/employees..everyone.. Only winners are the consumers currently
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Hali
Super Contributor
In that case the only variable will be cost of production.. In determining the profitability of the miners. This should be gazetted.. Or we will have another ACL.. As a country this is a major risk..causes unemployment/reduced tax collection and eventually will lead to political instability..
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SimonPB
Valued Contributor
the makret can stop using platinum .. not over night but absolutely it can
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