quote of the day

[divz]

You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for,that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~~~~ Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931

[divz]

An economics professor at a local college made the statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.

[SimonPB]

an then there is Sweden ??

[jack12]

STALIN was not the teacher? Welcome to the USSR. The problem is it will take generations to eradicate the false lesson in incorrect tutoring. My favorite is the smallest particle is a atom, and that cant be divided! Hence the Atom bomb does not exist, and everything that was taught after 1940 is hogwash and what you learn today is a figment of your imagination.

[Ninja]

Ah yes, but look at the majority of this continent.....the policies have not worked and yet the same bull dust is sprouted proudly from politicians mouths on a daily basis.....the concept of hard work and sacrifice is not nearly as easy to understand as the concept of entitlement. It is for this exact reason that the poor will always be poor as their victim mentality paralyses their ability to reach for a better life.

[#6]

Its sad but true, the problem we have in this beautiful country is that sosialism heavily outweighs common sense among the people of SA and we have to learn to make peace with it, or else go to Canada. :(

[jack12]

Dividing the wealth is not the main problem. Question how do you divide ambition?

[barry_1]

That is a very good way of stating it....On a slightly different note,how would like your house or business taken away from you and told that you can only work there with no capital gain going to you?I am sure not at all.I hailed from farming stock where my great grandfather bought LAND from the government and with no help from anyone built it up into a thriving business....Of course to be a successful farmer you have to be "hands on" and live on the farm as one has no off time.He improved the farm in many ways from soil conservation to housing for all living there.I AM SURE IF HE were told that would never belong to him he would not have bothered!

[#9]

just make sure you guys are not confusing your social systems here - there is a big difference between communism and socialism

[kwagga]

How do you divide entrepreneurism and risk taking? Who in his right mind would take on risk to start a company if he won't be able to profit from it? This is unfortunately not the concerns of the poor, as they are really parasitic and feed of the government of the day. Their only concern is a full stomach, a roof over their head and somebody to screw. They simply don't care where the money comes from, as long as they get it.

[#11]

ok ok. now we have a clear view of all the problems in the country. now: anyone got possible solutions? or are only good enough to spot the problems, and not treat them? maybe we can Tell America we have discovered huge OIL deposits in the Karoo? ...

[#12]

What about a social democracy (Norwayy, Sweden, Switzerland etc?). You are heavily taxed but you are looked after in your old age etc. It amounts to some capitalism and some communism (rather socialism?) in the sense that the tax money is shared. I was speaking to someone (oldish in 70s) from a previously communist country (Czekeslovakia?) and he said some people wished to return to the security of the old communist system as they all had jobs. Another previous communist giving a talk at a church said there was security in the communist system and another female I spoke to (from a previously communist country) said the same - guaranteed jobs. There are many problems with not having a job and so communism certainly has benefits, but people tend to do only what they have to and factories are inneficient, so we need opportunity for all but reward for effort. Someone who visited Cuba said people were far better off there economically than many here, so I would say some socialism in the sense that all can get a simple job, but incentive as well. People should also not be greedy - be satisfied with enough. People getting paid millions each year seems wrong

[jack12]

mmm Tough one to answer. It is true there was jobs for all. To facilitate this (behind the scenes and not to the knowledge of the common man) There was massive amounts of waste (eg. by calculation you should use 2 motors a year 2 motors were give even if they were not required) Everything is checked by a checker that checks the checker, so you end up with 10 people doing 1 mans job ( sounds about the same as SA?)Everybody wants the same pay! but who will do the work? only 1 person can do it and 9 must watch! for the same pay. Yes they do have provisions for the aged and the infirm, much like the rest of the world has. How do the millions unemployed contribute to this aged pension? They don't. so you end up paying taxes for them. Need to narrow (decrease the low, not take from those that have enough) the earnings ratio employed vs unemployed. Sa is not known for job creation (they always expect investment) but many countries have done it in the past, they built rail and roads by hand, massively labor intensive. All of the countries that did that in the past worked there way out of the unemployment era. I lived in Czech Republic for 5 yrs and in Kazakhstan for 3 years. Remember the grass is always greener on the other side.

[#14]

I like the idea of creating work. Right now ex soldiers are outside military bases demanding reintegration into the SANDF. This is partly why I say have some nationalised land that people can survive on - small family farms. How safe are trained soldiers?

[jack12]

The thing is, its not work they want, it is a salary, most want to be 1 of the 9 onlookers. If you put an advert in the paper looking for 100 000 people to build a new railway line, I doubt if 10% will show up. We are becoming a soft society of penpushers and machines. Pink Floyd had a song about that

[doomsdayza]

Prisoners Dilemma. Everyone cheats or does nothing.

[topgun]

Lol...ex-soldiers? Who, the dismissed ones who didn't display any military training or discipline when fired upon or am I missing something? "How safe are trained soldiers?" Well, the relevant minister refused a parliamentary debate on the combat readiness or otherwise of our aids stricken "defence force". So, I am now quite sure even she can answer that question...but apparently they aren't? Communal farming may just be the next best thing since they aren't defending anything and can't shoot straight in any event?

[Prestonmyhusban]

I am still pissed off that i have to give 40% of my trading income to SARS.

[qwest]

Hi there,I fully agree and would like to add this somewhat simpler vertion,they have yearnings for equal division of unequal earnings but it does unfortunately not stay there.They rape,steal and murder thus thereby throttle and lay waste the Goose that lay the golden Eggs

[jack12]

Yes, they know you are ambitious and hope that you will lay a dozen golden eggs!!!! LOL